Derailments
#1
My main question at the moment is if we aren't going too far with moving the derailments to the proper threads.

Let me be the first to point out that I'm probably most guilty of derailing threads here - or at least in the top 3 - and that I understand the need for it to keep things focused. The "Now Playing" thread has been falling victim to some unnecessary derailments and I think the mods have been doing a great job of suggesting us to move those discussions to their proper threads.

There is just a slight problem I have with moving posts to different threads at times. First of all, the way things are moved, the context of the discussion is sometimes lost and it certainly tends to break up discussions.

People who followed things recently probably wouldn't be surprised that the Aldious thread has made me ask myself if it isn't going too far. I'll freely admit that my phrasing may have been a bit too simplistic, that I could have made the relevance more apparent. But those kinds of quickly written posts are common on forums, especially if they get very busy. I'm afraid it might also scare potential quality newcomers away if they assume things are run too strictly here.

Honestly, I'm not trying to attack anyone here and I fully admit my own guilt at causing this "strictness", but it would just be a shame if members of this forum would feel limited when it is not necessary.
If you can't get enough of me giving my opinions without having asked for it, you can read more of it on my Kevy Metal weblog.
#2
What you say is true. It would be pretty difficult to prevent derailments completely. The "Now Playing" thread makes it very easy for people to strike up a conversation on a release or band they're interested in, and this forum (from my understanding) is very open and often encourages said conversation.
Of course moving derailments to appropriate threads makes things more orderly and easier to navigate, but I doubt a few derailments here and there should make us feel like the world is falling apart.
#3
Yeah, I'll admit it's pretty arbitrary. Now as for the Aldious thing, don't blame me. I just ignored it. Tongue I'm sure the reasoning was that no one wanted the Aldious thread to devolve into discussion about Brian May/Queen (which I didn't think it was going to happen but it's a valid concern).

As for derailments in general, it's fine to go off-topic for a little bit, but in general try to avoid it (I know I'm kinda of guilty of derailing myself, i.e. that Luna Sea thread). When it comes to band threads, obviously you can talk about other bands/artists (nobody is going to throw a fit if Mary's Blood comes up in the Aldious thread), but don't make them focal point of discussion. And those other bands/artists should clearly be related somehow. For the "Now Playing" thread, it's fine to have a little bit of conversation on something (especially if there's no available band thread), but don't go on for pages and pages about it. At that point, it's better to have a thread to catch the subject (trust me; Perdition and I know that. Laugh)

Now moving posts is pretty easy, so it's not like any of us are going to drop a banhammer on you if you post in the wrong thread or something (hell I just did it earlier this morning). Don't worry on that front. Wink
Occasionally, I write music reviews.
#4
(12-07-2017, 07:07 AM)Dudemanguy Wrote: I'm sure the reasoning was that no one wanted the Aldious thread to devolve into discussion about Brian May/Queen (which I didn't think it was going to happen but it's a valid concern).

Absolutely a valid concern. No arguments there. I guess the Aldious thread is one of the most "risky" threads when it comes to unwanted derailments, I just had the idea that the mere mention of seemingly unrelated artists was the reason why things were under heightened attention and I don't know if that's necessary.
If you can't get enough of me giving my opinions without having asked for it, you can read more of it on my Kevy Metal weblog.
#5
Move posts that are of substantial quality. For the most part, one-liners and such don't make very convincing thread openers. The discussion flow is disrupted prematurely that way. Someone should do the honors and either start a thread or quote the post(s) in an existing thread, and then return to the original thread where the derailment occurred for a link to follow the context.

Main thing to keep in mind is to manage. Not micromanage. The latter will only fragment discussions.
#6
(12-07-2017, 07:13 AM)Agonymph Wrote: Absolutely a valid concern. No arguments there. I guess the Aldious thread is one of the most "risky" threads when it comes to unwanted derailments, I just had the idea that the mere mention of seemingly unrelated artists was the reason why things were under heightened attention and I don't know if that's necessary.

Well we're inevitably going to be more strict with totally unrelated artists. Nobody is going to care about a Syu vs Hizaki discussion popping up in the Galneryus or Versailles thread. But Syu vs Johnny Cash won't last as long. Wink
Occasionally, I write music reviews.
#7
I tend to get triggered if a western band (esp. a commercial and completely unrelated one) gets discussed in a band/news thread. Personally I think band threads should be about the said band as much as possible. Of course related bands and influences are ok to mention once in awhile, but the topic should still be on the said band.

I know most of us (including myself) may post something off the rails in those threads that's tempting to respond to, but I think sometimes its best to ignore such comments. I guess if something must be responded to, I'd recommend responding to it on a relevant FFA thread (hell, the general music one even) - quote the post, C&P it there, use that @ +username to notify the user, and so on.

With the now playing thread, I don't mind discussion there, but if it gets to be too intensive, I'll probably move it to the relevant band thread (eg, look what happened to that Malice Mizer thread lol). I don't think there's any point in making band threads for non-Japanese non-Metal ones though - I'd sooner just move it to that non-metal FFA thread.
My last.fm | Rate Your Music | CDs for sale: Forum, Ebay, and Discogs
#8
My personal take on derailments is this: eventually, the move has to occur. The risks of course are those of moving something too early, and killing a potential conversation, resulting in a fragment that makes the destination thread jumbled.
The other is waiting too long and having the derailed thread be a mess.

I think context has to be the guide, as there has to be a decent starting point in the derailment so that the moved part still is coherent and there isn’t an obvious hole in the derailed thread after. Sometimes that will be easier if there is more to move.

So basically, I agree that they need to be moved, but not necessarily immediately, to avoid several potential new problems. It’s going to be a judgement call every time, but I certainly appreciate that y’all are even willing to discuss it. Some places are all too happy to drop banhammers at the slightest offense.
#9
I tend to nip things in the bud before it turns into a problem, but mostly I agree with waiting it out then moving it later. I don't really like splitting derailments off into new threads. I'm far more liberal with general threads than band ones.

When things get hijacked, that's when I'm more inclined to clamp down. Like Miho liking Manowar is worthy of mentioning in the Lovebites thread, but it doesn't really warrant turning it into a Manowar one. And stuff like that can go off the rails pretty quick. If people want to discuss western bands so badly, there's the "other music" section that's rarely used.

There's also a problem with some threads becoming too general and absorbing other topics so that they lose their point. There's been a few that have been renamed several times and had other derailments moved into them and I really don't know what the point of them is. I'd rather risk having several "redundant", yet specific, threads, than having everything merged into one thing. Like there's several different topics involving producers and production that warrant their own thread, but I feel they'd just get merged into one thread anyway.

The catch-all threads I have in most subforums are there to manage derailments and to collect miscellany. Also, since people don't seem to know where to post something (or don't feel like they're allowed to make threads), they can post there if all else fails. I get the feeling that conversation is heavily suppressed around here, so these things are to at least allow an opening.
My last.fm | Rate Your Music | CDs for sale: Forum, Ebay, and Discogs
#10
I've reached a conclusion.

Everyone has made their fair points. Most derailments are just shitposts — best to leave them as they are. They are too poorly written to provide adequate context in a different thread. Everyone should attempt to direct derailments to their appropriate threads. This should be determined after three posts or so that the current discussion is furthering away from the thread. Attempt to save it by linking to the appropriate thread or quoting the last post in the appropriate thread and linking back to it in the thread that got derailed. This way, the context won't be lost.

Seriously, everyone should use the search function more often. If you want to discuss Heavens Gate (awesome German power metal band), run a search on them. If no thread exists on them, then you're more than welcome to post a thread on them, even if the post isn't so high up in quality. Just do your part to help facilitate such discussions in the long run.

Locking this thread now, as this decision has been final. To summarize, moderators should not go move-crazy on just about any derailment that would cripple the discussion flow in its appropriate thread, and members should search for and link to other existing threads around the forum.


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